MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has ordered the Pentagon's inspector general to investigate the conduct of retired Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman General Mark Milley. Milley had clashed at times with President Trump during his first term. Now Trump's defense secretary wants to determine whether it is appropriate that Milley be reduced in rank from his current four stars. NPR's Tom Bowman joins me to talk about this. Hey, Tom.
TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Hey there.
KELLY: Reducing a four-star general in rank is not a thing to be undertaken lightly. What more can you tell us?
BOWMAN: Well, we don't have a lot of detail why this is being done or any specific conduct here. The Pentagon put out a release late last night saying only, quote, "undermining the chain of command is corrosive to our national security, and restoring accountability is a priority for the Defense Department under President Trump's leadership." Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth also revoked Milley's security clearance as well as his security detail. He had 24/7 security provided by the Army. Security details were earlier revoked, of course, for former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and former National Security Adviser John Bolton. All three men were involved in the U.S. airstrike back in 2020 that killed Iranian General Qasem Soleimani, and there's an ongoing threat against them from Iran.
KELLY: And, Tom, I'm trying to square this up with what President Biden did on his way out the door. He gave General Milley and some others immunity from prosecution.
BOWMAN: That's right, Mary Louise. It applies to federal and military law. What's being proposed here is administrative action.
KELLY: OK. So not a lot of detail on what may come next or what conduct may be under review, but clearly Trump and Milley had their moments, had a rocky relationship.
BOWMAN: Absolutely. No, Trump chose Milley to be his senior military advisor back in 2019, but the relationship soured over time and only got worse. For example, Trump wanted to use active-duty troops in American cities. Milley and others talked him out of it. Trump suggested shooting protesters in the legs, clearly an illegal order that Milley others opposed. And there were times when Milley convinced him to change course on policy, like removing all U.S. troops from Syria. Milley told him they needed to continue going after the remnants of the Islamic State, and they're still there.
The big rupture, Mary Louise, came in June 2020, after the protests following the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis. Trump and Milley walked from the White House across Lafayette Square, as you may remember. Milley realized it was clearly - it was a political photo op and soon apologized, saying I should not have been there, and that it created a perception of the military getting involved in domestic politics, and the military must remain apolitical. That really upset Trump. And Milley had a not too subtle parting shot at Trump when he retired in September 2023. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
MARK MILLEY: We don't take an oath to a king or a queen, or to a tyrant or a dictator. And we don't take an oath to a wannabe dictator. We don't take an oath to an individual. We take an oath to the Constitution. And we take an oath to the idea that it's America, and we're willing to die to protect it.
KELLY: Wannabe dictator, we heard Milley saying there. Although, he notably did not mention Trump by name.
BOWMAN: No, that's right. And civil military relations experts tell me going after a retired senior officer like this is extremely rare, maybe unprecedented.
KELLY: NPR Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman. Thank you.
BOWMAN: You're welcome.
(SOUNDBITE OF BADBADNOTGOOD AND GHOSTFACE KILLAH'S "EXPERIENCE") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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