SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
There is shock and dismay in Ukraine after their president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, was berated yesterday in the Oval Office in front of reporters by both Vice President JD Vance and President Trump.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: You're gambling with World War III, and what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country...
PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: I'm with all respect to your country.
TRUMP: ...That's backed you far more than a lot of people said...
ZELENSKYY: I'm with all respect.
TRUMP: ...They should have.
SIMON: After the meeting, the White House canceled what was to be a joint news conference. The Ukrainian delegation canceled plans to sign a treaty with the United States to share Ukraine's mineral resources, which Trump said was key to organizing a ceasefire with Russia. NPR's Joanna Kakissis joins us now from Kyiv. Joanna, thanks for being with us.
JOANNA KAKISSIS, BYLINE: Thanks for having me, Scott.
SIMON: How would you describe the reaction you're experiencing there?
KAKSISSIS: Well, Scott, I would describe this - the reaction is outrage laced with panic. The U.S. is Ukraine's most important single ally, and Zelenskyy himself has said repeatedly that it will be very hard for Ukraine to keep defending itself against Russia without U.S. support. I got several text messages from Ukrainians I know saying, oh, no, it's over. And they wondered, with the Trump administration embracing Russia, what will happen to Ukraine. Now, this is the panic talking. But what's been louder than the panic has been the anger.
Ukrainians are rallying around Zelenskyy, recording TikTok videos, supporting him, and writing on social media, likening President Trump and Vice President Vance to schoolyard bullies who set out to humiliate and browbeat Zelenskyy. One prominent Ukrainian politician, Mustafa Nayyem, posted a "Godfather" meme and and wrote a - and wrote, quote, "this administration doesn't just dislike us, they despise us, not just Zelenskyy, but us as a country, as a problem, as an annoying obstacle in their cozy world of backroom deals."
SIMON: Joanna, what have you heard from Ukrainians specifically about the vice president's claim that President Zelenskyy hasn't shown gratitude to the U.S.?
KAKSISSIS: We spoke to Ukrainians about this last night at the Kyiv food market. They brought it up, this idea that Vance thinks Zelenskyy isn't grateful. And they pointed out that Zelenskyy has literally thanked the U.S. almost every single time he speaks publicly. They found it baffling that Vance would claim this since it's easy to check. A Ukrainian soldier, Denis Sokolov, he told us that Ukraine and the Trump administration have two different goals.
DENIS SOKOLOV: I think that the main difference in that Ukraine wants peace, but Trump want make a deal. That's a huge difference in our politics, in our vision, to how we want to end the war.
KAKSISSIS: So, Scott, making peace versus making a deal.
SIMON: Joanna, based on your conversations, what do Ukrainians seem to hope what'll happen next?
KAKSISSIS: Well, I hear many Ukrainians saying, look, let's work more closely with Europe where ties are already strong. Zelenskyy is now in London and is preparing to join a European conference on Sunday. European Union leaders have publicly defended Zelenskyy, including the EU's top diplomat, Kaja Kallas. She wrote on social media that the free world needs a new leader now, and it's up to us, the Europeans, to take this challenge. Here in Ukraine, political analysts say Zelenskyy is in a terrible spot since Trump seems to dislike Zelenskyy and seems to openly favor Russian President Vladimir Putin. Here's Oleksandr Kraiev, the North America director for the Ukrainian Prism Policy - Prism Foreign Policy Council in Kyiv.
OLEKSANDR KRAIEV: Putin does what Trump wants. He praises him. He compliments him. He speaks about establishing economic ties. And Zelenskyy speaks about justice. Zelenskyy speak about weapons. Zelenskyy speaks about defending Ukraine. So everything that Trump doesn't want to hear and doesn't want to do.
KAKSISSIS: But Kraiev did say he expects Zelenskyy to keep trying to get through to President Trump.
SIMON: NPR's Joanna Kakissis in Kyiv. Thanks so much.
KAKSISSIS: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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