STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Ukraine struck Russia today. It was the biggest ever drone attack on Moscow. According to Russian officials, the drone strikes hit a warehouse, killed and injured people, and briefly shut down the airports. It was a sign that Ukraine still has some striking power, even though it has lost some vital American support. Today, U.S. and Ukrainian negotiators meet to discuss that and much more.
A MART脥NEZ, HOST:
This meeting is happening in Saudi Arabia. And the talks do come with some urgency attached to them. The Trump administration is withholding both military aid and intelligence from a country that, up until now, has been a U.S. ally. President Trump has also talked of sanctions against Russia, but unlike with Ukraine, he has yet to announce a penalty.
INSKEEP: NPR Ukraine correspondent Joanna Kakissis is covering all this from Kyiv. Hi there, Joanna.
JOANNA KAKISSIS, BYLINE: Good morning.
INSKEEP: Let's just remember the backdrop here. Ukrainians and Americans met at the White House. Last time they met, it was Volodymyr Zelenskyy who argued with Trump and Vance, President Trump and Vice President Vance, and they then berated him. So what does Ukraine hope for this time?
KAKISSIS: Well, Steve, Ukrainians really hope the White House will change its tone after this meeting and its actions because the past couple of weeks have really unsettled everyone I've spoken to here, including Roman Kostenko. He's a military commander and lawmaker. And he said Ukraine has no choice but to work with the Trump administration because Ukraine will struggle to defend itself without U.S. support.
ROMAN KOSTENKO: (Speaking Ukrainian)
KAKISSIS: He's saying we have no way out. We have to manage, or we will die. It's not even a choice.
INSKEEP: OK, so they have no choice but to come back to the table. Here they are. President Trump spoke with reporters over the weekend, and he said of Ukrainians, quote, "I want them to want peace," although it is not clear at all what more the president wants than they have offered. So what's on the agenda for this meeting?
KAKISSIS: Well, Steve, no final decisions are set to be made today. Zelenskyy's in Saudi Arabia on a state visit, but he said he isn't planning to attend this meeting. And Trump won't be there either. The Ukrainian team includes Zelenskyy's chief of staff, Andriy Yermak, as well as Ukraine's foreign and defense ministers. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is leading the U.S. delegation. Rubio did say on Monday that he wants Ukraine to show that it's serious about ending the war. He talked about Ukraine making concessions, like giving up land taken by Russia. Now, Ukraine has said repeatedly that it's always been serious about ending this war, and it wants a peace deal with security guarantees so Russia does not rearm and attack again.
INSKEEP: Also just a reminder at this point - we're only talking about concessions by Ukraine. So what sort of concessions might the Ukrainians be willing to make?
KAKISSIS: Well, Zelenskyy has already proposed a partial ceasefire covering aerial attacks in the Black Sea. Not sure if Russia would agree to this, but Rubio seemed to welcome the move. And public opinion polls show between 20 and 30% of Ukrainians would consider giving up occupied territory in return for peace. However, Kostenko told us, look, Ukrainians do not trust Russia to honor any truces. He said Russia also invaded Chechnya and Georgia and violated ceasefires there. The same thing happened to Ukraine after 2014 when Russia first attacked. And eight years later, Russia launched the full-scale invasion.
KOSTENKO: (Speaking Ukrainian)
KAKISSIS: So Kostenko is saying, I'm a person who has experienced dozens of truces, and all were violated by Russia. So everyone needs to understand that when negotiating this truce.
INSKEEP: I guess the Ukrainians want to persuade the Trump administration that a peace deal isn't going to last if it's too easy on Russia. Is that it?
KAKISSIS: Well, yeah, everyone - every Ukrainian I've spoken to is trying to convince the Trump administration that it's in the U.S.' interest to support Ukraine. Here's Ivanna Klympush-Tsintsadze. She is a member of Ukraine's parliament.
IVANNA KLYMPUSH-TSINTSADZE: Is it in the interest of the United States to look weak? Because I think Ukrainian defeat would be a direct defeat of the United States. It's not about make America great again. It's about make America weak.
KAKISSIS: And she said, look, it's not clear this argument will work, but President Trump does not like looking weak.
INSKEEP: NPR's Joanna Kakissis always strong. Thanks so much.
KAKISSIS: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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