In a parking lot in Fayetteville, Georgia, John Pander is about to head into a competitive shooting match. And he鈥檚 brought along a pistol he doesn鈥檛 shoot anymore. It鈥檚 a SIG SAUER P229.
Pander usually buys his guns new, from federally licensed dealers. He keeps them locked up in a safe at home, but sometimes the safe fills up.
鈥淪o it all comes down to space,鈥� said Pander. 鈥淎nd yeah, sometimes you want to fund the next purchase.鈥�
So when he鈥檚 got his eye on a new gun, he puts an old one up for sale.
鈥淚鈥檝e used Armslist and I鈥檝e sold quite a few,鈥� said Pander. 鈥淵ou just post it up online and people say 鈥業鈥檒l take it鈥� or 鈥業鈥檒l offer you this much for it.鈥欌��
He鈥檚 sold about five guns over the last decade this way, with no problems, until recently.
鈥淚t was late in the evening when I finally got the email,鈥� said Pander. 鈥淎nd he says: 鈥榃ell, I鈥檓 trying to buy a gun for my girlfriend, and could we meet at 11 o鈥檆lock at this place?鈥欌��
The buyer wanted the gun immediately, that same night. It was a red flag for Pander. So was the fact that this is a person trying to buy a gun for someone else.
鈥淭here鈥檚 two different schools of thought on a person buying something for a wife or spouse or girlfriend,鈥� said Pander. 鈥淪ome say that they can do it because it鈥檚 like a gift to them.鈥� Others, he said, would argue it might indicate a .
Personally, Pander said he believes people should buy their own guns. He often voluntarily asks buyers to fill out a , though he doesn鈥檛 insist on it if the buyer doesn鈥檛 want to.
Pander asked the guy if he has a Georgia Weapons License, which would mean he鈥檚 passed a background check at some point in the past five years. By asking that, he was going above and beyond his legal obligation.
That鈥檚 because when it comes to private sales, federal law says simply that you cannot sell a gun to someone who鈥檚 prohibited from having one. You don鈥檛 actually have to check.
Turns out, the guy doesn鈥檛 have a license. So Pander offers to meet at a federally licensed dealer, who can run a background check for a fee of roughly $25.
The guy doesn鈥檛 want to do any of that.
鈥淪o at that point I鈥檓 not going to sell him,鈥� said Pander.
More Questions Than Answers
Researchers think of gun transactions take place without a background check every year. So what do we know about how common careful sellers like Pander are?
The answer, as with many questions involving gun data, is: not a lot.
Duke University economist Philip Cook has how guns make their way from the legal market to the criminal world.
鈥淲hat we know about is quite a bit about where offenders get their guns,鈥� said Cook. 鈥淎nd also we can find out something about the first transaction that that gun was involved in.鈥�
The two main sources of information researchers have to draw from are from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) and anonymous surveys of both gun owners and .
Cook says we know that most people buy their guns new, from licensed dealers who do require background checks. And we know that most people in prison on gun charges say they got their guns privately. But there鈥檚 no data about what happens in the middle.
A diagram of gun transactions by legal status. Courtesy of Philip J. Cook, ITT/Terry Sanford Professor Emeritus of Public Policy Studies at Duke University. Featured in .
Philip J. Cook / Sanford School of Public Policy, Duke University
Cook has surveyed convicted , who almost all say they got their guns through friends, family or social connections.
鈥滲ut it is very rare indeed to say they made that transaction through the internet,鈥� said Cook.
Way Around A Background Check?
So do we know anything about whether or not most private buyers could pass a background check?
鈥淭he answer, unfortunately, is no,鈥� said Deb Azreal, who directs research at the Harvard Injury Control Research Center.
鈥淚t is really kind of astonishing that we have no good mechanism to ascertain where guns are,鈥� said Azreal.
Many gun rights advocates don鈥檛 want that kind of system. If it existed, , the government could come take peoples鈥� guns away.
鈥淏ut it鈥檚 also reasonable to suspect that one reason you go to a private seller and get a gun without a background check is because you think you couldn鈥檛 pass that background check,鈥� said Azreal.
She thinks the number of buyers like that is probably small, but points to a concerning possibility about who is left out of the inmate surveys that researchers rely on: domestic abusers.
鈥淚 don鈥檛 actually know this, but I suspect [that people with domestic violence misdemeanors] are less likely than someone with a prior felony conviction to be arrested later for a gun crime. That would be my guess,鈥� said Azreal, careful to repeat that her suspicion is an educated guess.
of in being used to murder intimate partners abound.
鈥淚f you assume, which is reasonable, that the vast majority of people on Armslist are people of good faith, then what you really want to do is work on the sellers of guns, to insist on there being a background check like [John Pander],鈥� said Azreal 鈥淭he problem may be the buyers, but the solution has to lie with the sellers.鈥�
Azreal said she and her research colleagues had found 鈥渟triking鈥� about the difference between private gun sellers who live in states that regulate private sales and those that don鈥檛.
鈥淲e found that 57% of transfers that took place in states that didn鈥檛 regulate private sales had not had a background check, compared to 26% of sales in places that did regulate,鈥� said Azreal. 鈥淚t is indeed true that if you are hell-bent on getting a gun and you鈥檙e not a qualified possessor, you can probably figure out how to do it. But the harder you make it, the higher the cost is. And there鈥檚 going to be some kind of demand curve.鈥�
A SIG SAUER P229. The gun John Pander posted for sale online.
Lisa Hagen / WABE
鈥榃ould That Guilt Be On My Conscience?鈥�
21 states and the District of Columbia by requiring background checks or gun permits. Georgia, where John Pander lives, is not one of those states.
He believes people should voluntarily insist on background checks, though he鈥檚 not comfortable supporting , which would apply to private sales.
鈥淵ou can put the laws in place but at what point are you really going to get into infringing on the rights that you have?鈥� said Pander, expounding on a common point of view among gun rights activists. But he then acknowledges it wouldn鈥檛 make much difference in his day-to-day life.
鈥淚f they want to get rid of [private sales without background checks] is it going to hurt me any? I can still go through a dealer and sell the gun. I鈥檝e done that before,鈥� said Pander. He added he wouldn鈥檛 want to lose the ability to quietly sell or give his own family members 鈥� his son, for instance 鈥� a gun.
He also points out that just because someone buys a gun legally doesn鈥檛 mean they won鈥檛 use it criminally. But when it comes to his own transactions, he tries to be careful.
鈥淲hat happens if he were to use it in a crime? Would that guilt be on my conscience? If I went and saw, oh that鈥檚 the guy I just sold my gun to 鈥� so I don鈥檛 want to be any part of that,鈥� said Pander.
He worries primarily about active shooters, though evidence shows such incidents make up fewer of annual gun deaths. A recent high-profile shooting that killed seven and injured 22 people in Odessa, Texas, is top of mind. the shooter, who was prohibited from possessing a gun, bought the rifle he used in a private sale. Shortly after, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott released an official that private sellers run background checks voluntarily.
The man who tried to buy John Pander鈥檚 gun circled around weeks later in another email. Pander said the buyer didn鈥檛 seem to realize they鈥檇 talked previously. The two ran through the same set of exchanges about the girlfriend and the lack of a weapons license, which the buyer claimed he was still working on acquiring. Like the first time, Pander broke off communication.
The buyer isn鈥檛 Pander鈥檚 problem anymore. It鈥檚 possible he kept looking for another pistol and someone willing to sell it to him, in a parking lot, late at night.
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